Elements in Unicode: was odd question about elements 119+

First off, it's been about 6 years since I last took any chemistry. Second, I don't know if this question makes any sense, but I need the information for a project so here goes:

1. Is there any expectation that elements above atomic number 118 are even physically possible within our universe?

2. If so, do we have an expectation of a set of 18 groups corresponding to a new orbital geometry not present in lighter elements, or do we expect only 32 elements in period 8? This is just based on my observation of a patern of a set of 2 groups in period 1; sets of 2 and 6 in periods 2 and 3; 2,6,10 in 4 and 5; 2,6,10,14 in 6&7; therefore 2,6,10,14, & 18 in periods 8&9.

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1. YES! :) We are expecting to come across a "sea of stable elements" it comes from nuclear physics, Look up golden numbers in nuclear chemistry. I can explain it in more detail, if you want me to? It might take awhile though.

Well, question 2 was the big one for me.

Just to explain the situation: I am an amateur typographer - I design typefaces. I belong to a forum where a gentleman was having problems with indicating an atom of anti-hydrogen; he made his own font with a single character - an H with an overbar. I searched through Unicode and found encodings for few letters with top bars, so I thought it might be a good idea to have them in [url=http://www.unicode.org]Unicode[/url]. Unfortunately, because an H with a bar over is decomposable into a capital H with combining overbar (if that makes no sense to you, it just means that Unicode won't accept it as a unique character), the only way we could get symbols for standard anti-atoms would be to have the anti-element names as precomposed symbols. Since we're going that far, might as well have regular element symbols too! If that's the case, we need to make sure that there is enough room for all the new elements that will come as soon as we start synthesizing period 8. Thus, I need to know just how many period 8 elements there will be, and more importantly, how many new periods I could acommodate by allocating a given number of codepoints. Basically, I'm trying to see if I can get a standard way of representing element and anti-element symbols into Unicode.

[quote="vanisaac"]Well, question 2 was the big one for me.

Basically, I'm trying to see if I can get a standard way of representing element and anti-element symbols into Unicode.[/quote]

Are you saying there should be specific unicode representations of H, He, Li and so on for the rest of the elements (and anti-elements). Presumably these could look like H, He, Li, but machine readers would understand these to be chemical symbols?

[quote="WebElements"][quote="vanisaac"]Well, question 2 was the big one for me.

Basically, I'm trying to see if I can get a standard way of representing element and anti-element symbols into Unicode.[/quote]

Are you saying there should be specific unicode representations of H, He, Li and so on for the rest of the elements (and anti-elements). Presumably these could look like H, He, Li, but machine readers would understand these to be chemical symbols?[/quote]
It would be my goal to have a single code-point for representing each of the element symbols as well as the anti-elements. In other words, the computer, word processor, whatever, would recognize an element or anti-element's symbol as a distinct unit of text, just like a letter of an alphabet. Most importantly, symbols would have sort order and other inherent properties that are independent of the letters used to represent them, and that's the basis upon which I could see Unicode allocating code points for element symbols.

[quote="vanisaac"]It would be my goal to have a single code-point for representing each of the element symbols as well as the anti-elements. In other words, the computer, word processor, whatever, would recognize an element or anti-element's symbol as a distinct unit of text, just like a letter of an alphabet. Most importantly, symbols would have sort order and other inherent properties that are independent of the letters used to represent them, and that's the basis upon which I could see Unicode allocating code points for element symbols.[/quote]

Well this sounds eminently sensible. Up to 168, i.e. the completion of Period 8 sounds far enough to me. How can the chemistry community help you to get these codes into Unicode? What is the demand for antielement symbols? Possibly not great, certainly not as far as 168?

[quote="WebElements"][quote="vanisaac"]It would be my goal to have a single code-point for representing each of the element symbols as well as the anti-elements. In other words, the computer, word processor, whatever, would recognize an element or anti-element's symbol as a distinct unit of text, just like a letter of an alphabet. Most importantly, symbols would have sort order and other inherent properties that are independent of the letters used to represent them, and that's the basis upon which I could see Unicode allocating code points for element symbols.[/quote]

Well this sounds eminently sensible. Up to 168, i.e. the completion of Period 8 sounds far enough to me. How can the chemistry community help you to get these codes into Unicode? What is the demand for antielement symbols? Possibly not great, certainly not as far as 168?[/quote]
It really doesn't matter whether the demand would be great, it really just matters if there is or will be a demand. Is there reason to believe that anyone will need a symbol for all the corresponding anti-elements, even through series 9? I think it is clear that this would be so if there is ever a demand for indicating the non-anti-elements. Since we are allocating code points for elements through series 9, the anti-elements would need a similar allocation.

Right now, I am looking at ?K (512) code points. 218 for series 1-9, 218 for series 1-9 antielements, and 76 reserved code points currently placeholding, but probably reservable for other chemistry related symbols. There is really no good reason in terms of allocation to only go through element 168. The next power of 2 is still 256, so we might as well allocate through series 9.

For 108 out of those two sets of 218 (elements 111+), a symbol would have to be established by international agencies for the code point to have a permanent "value". Currently, elements 111-217 (code points xx06E-xx0D9) would either be reserved, or temporarily labeled Uuu-Bus until a permanent name and symbol were agreed upon.

As for what I would need to get this proposal off the ground, a sponsoring agency would be quite helpful. Additionally, at some point in time, IUPAC and whatever other agencies (ACS?) are responsible for element names would need to be brought on board, as they would be responsible for updating Unicode on new symbols for elements 111+.

Looking for some constructive criticism, what I missed, or any other comments on [url=http://www.chemicalforums.com/~vanisaac/Proposal.doc] this proposal.[/url] Unless you know about Unicode and can stand all the technical junk, the stuff I need help on is really on pages 3-7. Page 5 is especially important. I need to know if there are other special symbols for isotopes or if there are other symbols in common use. Also, if there are any problems with my nomenclature anywhere or my representation of anti-element symbols, I could use the help. Just so you can figure out the tables, the top of a column contains the first three numbers of the character code, the number on the right is the last, so Tungsten is listed as "U+x049 Atomic symbol Tungsten" and is found in the column labeled "x04x" in row 9.

[url]http://www.chemicalforums.com/~vanisaac/Proposal.doc[/url]

Please send all correspondence to vanisaac@chemicalforums.com

Thanks in advance for everyone's help. I hope to find some time to start getting opinions from some of the Unicode technical forums once I'm sure that the characters are Ok.

How many characters can you fit into unicode? As much as needed? is there a limit?

Unicode is a standard allocation of codes, ideally giving a unique binary code for every character of all written languages in the world, in order to facilitate electronic communication in any language. There are 17*2^16 (1,114,112) code points, but some of them are allocated for private use. All other code points are set aside in blocks that vary in size from the 42,704 character CJK Ideograph Extension B to the 16 character Specials block. Blocks are given as much allocation as is believed they will ever need. An allocation of 512 code points should be adequate for a block of Atomic symbols. If, at some point in the future, there were to be added a very large number of characters that would not fit in this allocation, the addition of an Extended Atomic Symbols block would probably be called for. Is there a particular reason you ask?

If for some reason we were suddenly filling up period 8 elements, I wanted to know if there was some "wiggle" room. If period 8 was filled that would be element 168.

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